Boy Scout gay ban is ending... thoughts?

[EmberMike]

Figured there must be a few other former scouts in here, so this is as good a place as any to discuss this.

I'm really happy about it. I wasn't one of the guys who sent back their Eagle medals, but I was pretty disappointed about the extension of the policy last year when they had such a good opportunity to publicly reverse it. I just signed a petition and sent a written letter (not email... yes people still do that) to Wayne Brock (Chief Scout Executive). I wrote the letter from the perspective of a parent of a young boy who I hope one day will express an interest in Scouting, and the dilemma I'd face in deciding whether or not he should join an organization that maintains an outdated policy of discrimination.

This also brought up an interesting discussion with a friend about gender exclusion in the BSA. The question of whether girls should be allowed to join came up. And as much as maybe I'm a bit of a hypocrite to say this, I prefer they keep the gender distinction.

Any thoughts on this?

[JeepThrills]

I am glad they are reversing their policy. As to the question about girls becoming Boy Scouts. I think there needs to be some divisions some of the time so that girls can bond separately with girls and female role models and boys can bond with boys and male role models.

[Penelope]

I agree with JeepThrills that girls and boys need to spend time with their mentors separately. The reality is that there are usually significant differences between genders. Hence the saying, "Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus."

[Bojib]

I agree that boys should be in boy scouts and girls in girl scouts for the reasons mentioned above me.

I don't have any issue with the gay ban being lifted. I just wonder if that is the right age for anyone to be exploring their sexual preference. Maybe I was a late bloomer, but I really wasn't that interested in sexual relationships of any type at that point in my life. Maybe in the later years of boy scouts I started becoming more interested in the ladies, but not enough so to make such a definite decision. For Eagle scouts I can see the lift of the ban being pertinent, by that age a person probably knows what their sexual preference will be.

[Grandpa]

I do not uphold mandatory entrance for anyone wishing it in a group. If a group of people want to start an organization with a certain set of eligibility requirements, they should have that right. If someone outside those requirements likes the format of the group, they should have the right to start their own group with their own format.

There are Boys Scouts of America and there are Girl Scouts of the USA. The name says it all. I am an adult leader in the BSA and I also help support a GS of the USA group. To allow girls into the BSA or boys into the GS would stretch volunteer manpower beyond the ability of either group to exist.

Our local council was recently riddled by a pedophile at the summer camp. Evidently this guy was operating for several years before he got caught. The law suits are still ongoing over his illegal seductions to the point, the coucil was disbanded.

If former scouts who have since joined the gay community like the BSA so much, why don't they start their own program catering to that community? Why try to force their way into a program where their personal beliefs are at odds with the rest of the group?
In short, I am highly disappointed with the decision of the National Council. But then I have been highly disappointed with the National council on many other matters as well. They seem to exist for the money rather than for the boys.

[EmberMike]

Originally Posted by Grandpa

...If former scouts who have since joined the gay community like the BSA so much, why don't they start their own program catering to that community? Why try to force their way into a program where their personal beliefs are at odds with the rest of the group...

Are they at odds with the rest of the group? I'm quite a few years out of scouting, but is the sentiment among active members generally in favor of the ban?

There is definitely a lot of opposition to the ban among inactive members. Scouts for Equality has 3,602 Eagles among their listed opponents of the ban, myself included in that number. As well as a petition with 1.4 million signatures. Surely many of those signatures are from active members or parents of active scouts.

I oppose the ban as someone who hopes to become active in Scouting again some day. I doubt my opinion would change if I get the chance to be active in a troop again. I hope my son is interested in Scouting some day, and I'd hate to have him go through it and reach 16 or 17 and start to realize that he might be gay and realize that the organization he belongs to would kick him out if anyone knew. I have no idea what my son's sexual orientation is yet, but I want him to have every opportunity to go through Scouting if he so chooses to, without the risk of being ousted after years of work and service.

That's where many kids are finding themselves now. Some are having their Eagle ranks withheld because of this.

[Hikenhunter]

The subject of homosexuality is one that will never be setteled and agreed upon by everyone. I for one believe that gay people are not "BORN THAT WAY" and that being homosexual is a choice that an individual makes at some time in his or her life. I believe thast it is unnatural, that males and females are different from one another for a reason. I am not homophobic but at the same time I do not want gay men or women interacting with my grandchildren and I do not want them telling my grandchildren that it is natural to be gay or that it is somthing they can't help because they are born that way. I have neighbors who are lesbians. One of them was married for years and has two teenage children . one a boy, and one a girl, both of whom are straight. My neighbors are two of the nicest people you could ever have as neighbors but being gay is something that one of them chose to be after 12 years of marriage to a man. I believe that Girls need their own groups as do boys. I do not think that a person of under 14 or 15 years of age should even be thinking of their sexual preferences because those feeloings come on as they reach their mid teens.I am opposed to gay men being leaders in boy scout troops because I am opposed to boys thinking that it is ok to be gay. For years I have admired the BSA for standing by their policies banning gays. I believe ,as grandpa does, that it it more about the money than the boys, that has mad the National council Cave in on their policy. I believe that if they want to start a Gay Scouts of America they should but I do not think that gays should force their ideals and their rhetoric on any group that is opposed to their sexual orientation. To say I'm dissapointed in the National council for their decision is an understatement. You can sound off with all the numbers and all the scientific proof that I am wrong but you will never change my mind on homosexuality and where I believe it should be kept, which is in the clodet where it caused a lot less controversy when it was kept there. I am glad my leader days are over as if this had happened when I was a leader and my boys were scouts I would have quit and I would have pulled them from the program.

[Lorax]

The BSA has a long history with problems dealing with gay scouts and leaders. This has been going on since the 90's after the legal issues arising when they gained national attention for their stance on the issue.

What it caused was this.
Since they said they wouldn't allow gay leaders, it classified them as an exclusive group. An exclusive group that segregates by sexual preference made them a "hate group".
Now, being labeled as such made it very difficult for the BSA to hold any type of family event or activity in local places such as public parks due to the perception that they were now a hate group.

The BSA spent 10 million to fight their side and stuck to their guns on the issue.

For the BSA to survive (there's a lot of hate for the BSA out there) they have to compromise at the cost of some members and the gain of a few members. It will be interesting to see where this goes as it could really change the whole concept of the activity as it morphs into something totally new.

[wvbreamfisherman]

I personally have nothing against gay scout leaders or gay scouts. I think any boy can benefit from the program. I also think that boys need mentoring by men. Boys are already opressed enough by the K-12 education system.

However, I don't think that this change in policy will accomplish anything but more problems for the organization. I visited my old scout camp last year for the 50th anniversary of the camp. It now has segregated showers one for boys, one for adults. It's rather sad that there can't be any trust in people these days.

I don't see how having openly gay boys and adults in the organization is going to alleviate the concerns about sexual contact between boys and adults. I believe it will only heighten the distrust that is already apparent.

Before anyone jumps on me over this, I realize that only a very small percentage of gays are gay pedophiles or pederasts.

I don't have a solution to the problem, but I don't really think this is it.

My $0.02

[ibgary]

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