oldsarge
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Appreciate your response also!
Controlling Gun Violence
- Thread starter ppine
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swebob
New Member
What gets me mad is the media, the day of this recent shooting every channel where i live ran this story all day and this is also what Feeds the minds of copy cats killers. I can remember when the only time there was a special report was when it was national and government news, Not special reports for a cop chase a thousand miles away. We just have some sick people in this world today. My prayers go out to the families.
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LunaticFringeInc
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It burns me too Grandpa that we blast this over the news and give it so much media coverage which I too think contributes considerably to copy cats and plants ideas into those who aint just quiet right and mad at the world as they see it as an oppertunity to "make a statement".
CozInCowtown
Moderator
I wonder if *THIS* is what stopped the prick in Oregon??
Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter | kgw.com Portland
Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter | kgw.com Portland
LunaticFringeInc
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We definitely need to do something more than throw a few Ritalin pills at the problem and talk about it in private occasionally and call it good!
Good post dinosaur. That first paragrapgh especially pretty much summed it up for me!
CozInCowtown
Moderator
I have two things that I see as primarily the root cause.
1)
I do not know this kid or the family but I see too many kids who are never prepared for adulthood by the parents.
The new "answer" to discipline is drugs and that does not seem to be working very well in too many cases.
A little less ridilin and more "Spank That Kid" would do wonders IMO.
Working with foster kids I see alot of this. We have replaced drugs with parental time and outside play on many kids coming through our home and almost every time it works without fail.
Kids are full of energy and it needs to be released instead of supressed by drugs.
This is not 100% but my experience has been 95% of the time just let them burn off that energy in a fun productive way.
This combined with the life lesson of good work ethics, rights and responsibilities. Give children chores (jobs) that they are responsible for and let them learn the good and bad of doing or not doing an assigned job.
I do not think this "kid" was ready for life and the stress of the situation and being unprepared to deal with it he broke a lashed out taking 28 innocents with him.
2)
I think we have beat up the gun control vs. protecting the school and the children issue.
Y'all know where I stand on that one.
JMO,
DC
2)
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beemerphill
Member
As soon as the full report of this hit the airwaves most of us knew that this was going to be the trigger for an immense debate on gun control. The fact that "assault weapons" were not used means nothing. People will want them banned, and politicians will seek to gain political advantage by catering to these people. A major media mogul ( he would like me to use his name to increase his recognition) is calling for a ban on all "automatic" firearms. He doesn't mention if his bodyguards are included in the ban. Many are calling for a ban on "those magazine thingies". They probably mean high-capacity mags. They have obviously never seen how quickly a trained shooter can change 10 rounders. The fat has-been comedian will undoubtedly call for a ban on all firearms. Again, not for her bodyguards.
I do not know how to word a law to prevent this by controlling the mentally ill. Who defines mental illness? Who decides just who is and isn't mentally-ill? Who pays for the treatment? Are civil liberties considered in the equation?
It will be hard to remain objective when the pictures of the slain children are shown on TV. Hopefully some of us will retain a leval of sanity. Most won't.
There were many mistakes made in the shooters family. I am afraid that the rest of the country will have to pay. Heaven help all of us if a copy-cat commits another mass-shooting in the immediate future.
I do not know how to word a law to prevent this by controlling the mentally ill. Who defines mental illness? Who decides just who is and isn't mentally-ill? Who pays for the treatment? Are civil liberties considered in the equation?
It will be hard to remain objective when the pictures of the slain children are shown on TV. Hopefully some of us will retain a leval of sanity. Most won't.
There were many mistakes made in the shooters family. I am afraid that the rest of the country will have to pay. Heaven help all of us if a copy-cat commits another mass-shooting in the immediate future.
We have had some good chatter here about a very bad subject. But I have had a recurring thought about these "nuts". Please bear with me here as I do some speculative mind wandering and feel free to critique my thinking.
I have had a hard time wrapping my brain around the methods used to create the radical Islamic suicide bombers. But someone has come up with a method of getting those young men and women washed into the mentality of blowing themselves up with as many others as they can. Is something of the same thing happening here? Has someone/or someones come up with a way to convince these people they need to do this? Are there really this many nuts who are trying to outdo the previous nuts or is there a real conspiracy recruiting these kids and brainwashing them? We know Holmes (Aurora theater shooter) was an Occupier. Did this open his mind into thinking he needed to kill those people for the greater good of humanity? Is there something like this going on? I can't help but wonder.
I have had a hard time wrapping my brain around the methods used to create the radical Islamic suicide bombers. But someone has come up with a method of getting those young men and women washed into the mentality of blowing themselves up with as many others as they can. Is something of the same thing happening here? Has someone/or someones come up with a way to convince these people they need to do this? Are there really this many nuts who are trying to outdo the previous nuts or is there a real conspiracy recruiting these kids and brainwashing them? We know Holmes (Aurora theater shooter) was an Occupier. Did this open his mind into thinking he needed to kill those people for the greater good of humanity? Is there something like this going on? I can't help but wonder.
oldsarge
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You do have to wonder about it all Grandpa. I hate to sound like some off the wall conspiracy theorist, but there's no telling about anything any more. It's not until something has been proven out right that we will know. Dis-information is a big deal when controlling people. Keeping others confused and doubting others just plays us against each other. With all this information technology, every time something happens it's immediately posted around the world, stirring up emotions and creating controversy before we know all the facts.
I hate to break it to you Hiker but most LEOs qualify twice a year; that is all that is required in most states. Also most LEOsonly shoot/train once a year meaning they fire their gun twice to three times in any given year. SWAT/ERT operators may fire more often. I have spoken with the local SWAT/ERT sniper he and the other sniper fire monthly six (6) rounds each mainly to make sure the scopes are still zeroed at the distance the desire.
Yes, there are officers that shoot more often on their own dime but they are few and far between.
Not saying the CC people shoot more often. Though alot shoot IDPA, IPSC, Three gun or other competitive shooting sports regularly six or more times a year.
While I am not sure I want teachers, janitors and the like carying in my son's school; I would rather have that than no one to protect the lives of my children and his classmates.
Talked to one of my neighbor deputies. As McCallum said, they get very little practice. Because we are a large rural county with few people, there just isn't a budget for practice ammo. He said the two Swat team boys here get a larger ammo budget because it is a multi county swat team.
I know many teachers in our area who are CC ers and are expert shots, including my own daughter, yet they are not allowed to carry either. School teachers may be required to kowtow to the NEA but that doesn't mean in personal life they adhere to the leftist facist principles.
I know many teachers in our area who are CC ers and are expert shots, including my own daughter, yet they are not allowed to carry either. School teachers may be required to kowtow to the NEA but that doesn't mean in personal life they adhere to the leftist facist principles.
beemerphill
Member
Grandpa,
Many of us have wondered about the same thing. In some cases the shooter is clearly not playing with the same deck of cards that we are, but often times it is a normal person with no reason to kill people. What sets them off? Why must they go on a killing spree? We have all heard of government programs to control minds and thoughts. It is not only our government, most of them have some desire for this kind of power. Perhaps someone figured out how to really control a strangers mind? The concept is scary. Most of us who have these kind of questions are a little bashful about asking them, because we do not want the "tin-foil hat" label attached to us. Perhaps it is time to pay more attention to those who have been labeled conspiracy nuts. Some of them may be making more sense that we had previously thought.
:tinysmile_fatgrin_t:tinysmile_fatgrin_t
Many of us have wondered about the same thing. In some cases the shooter is clearly not playing with the same deck of cards that we are, but often times it is a normal person with no reason to kill people. What sets them off? Why must they go on a killing spree? We have all heard of government programs to control minds and thoughts. It is not only our government, most of them have some desire for this kind of power. Perhaps someone figured out how to really control a strangers mind? The concept is scary. Most of us who have these kind of questions are a little bashful about asking them, because we do not want the "tin-foil hat" label attached to us. Perhaps it is time to pay more attention to those who have been labeled conspiracy nuts. Some of them may be making more sense that we had previously thought.
:tinysmile_fatgrin_t:tinysmile_fatgrin_t
wvbreamfisherman
Active Member
Borrowed from Law Prof. Glenn Reynolds (University of Tenn.) "Instapundit " blog:
SO IF WE’RE GOING TO HAVE A “NATIONAL CONVERSATION ON GUNS,” HERE ARE SOME OPENERS:
Why do people who favor gun-control call people who disagree with them murderers or accomplices to murder? Is that constructive?
Would any of the various proposals have actually prevented the tragedy that is the supposed reason for them?
When you say you hope that this event will finally change the debate, do you really mean that you hope you can use emotionalism and blood-libel-bullying to get your way on political issues that were losers in the past?
If you’re a media member or politician, do you have armed security? Do you have a permit for a gun yourself? (I’m asking you Dianne Feinstein!) If so, what makes your life more valuable than other people’s?
Do you know the difference between an automatic weapon and a semi-automatic weapon? Do your public statements reflect that difference?
If guns cause murder, why have murder rates fallen as gun sales have skyrocketed?
Have you talked about “Fast and Furious?” Do you even know what it is? Do you care less when brown people die?
When you say that “we” need to change, how are you planning to change? Does your change involve any actual sacrifice on your part?
Let me know when you’re ready to talk about these things. We’ll have a conversation
SO IF WE’RE GOING TO HAVE A “NATIONAL CONVERSATION ON GUNS,” HERE ARE SOME OPENERS:
Why do people who favor gun-control call people who disagree with them murderers or accomplices to murder? Is that constructive?
Would any of the various proposals have actually prevented the tragedy that is the supposed reason for them?
When you say you hope that this event will finally change the debate, do you really mean that you hope you can use emotionalism and blood-libel-bullying to get your way on political issues that were losers in the past?
If you’re a media member or politician, do you have armed security? Do you have a permit for a gun yourself? (I’m asking you Dianne Feinstein!) If so, what makes your life more valuable than other people’s?
Do you know the difference between an automatic weapon and a semi-automatic weapon? Do your public statements reflect that difference?
If guns cause murder, why have murder rates fallen as gun sales have skyrocketed?
Have you talked about “Fast and Furious?” Do you even know what it is? Do you care less when brown people die?
When you say that “we” need to change, how are you planning to change? Does your change involve any actual sacrifice on your part?
Let me know when you’re ready to talk about these things. We’ll have a conversation
Trying to fix this problem with a gun, is like trying to stop a fire with another fire, sure it's possible, but you will end up with a lot more collateral damage before the problem is fixed. The solution is somewhere in the middle, gun laws need to be more strict and the way we treat the mentally ill has to drastically change.
Pathfinder1
Well-Known Member
Hi...
One starting point is to have better security, especially at schools and where there are large groups of people indoors.
Example: how did that kid enter that school with guns? He might have been stopped if he just KNEW that he would be TSA'd...!!
Our local school district has one Village policeman on duty IN the high/middle schools every day that they are open. However...as I've substitute taught (all grades) there...the only precautions taken that I've seen taken was asking for a school ID...EXCLUDING students...unless they came in after school classes began for the day.
Even strangers could gain access by showing only a school ID.
One starting point is to have better security, especially at schools and where there are large groups of people indoors.
Example: how did that kid enter that school with guns? He might have been stopped if he just KNEW that he would be TSA'd...!!
Our local school district has one Village policeman on duty IN the high/middle schools every day that they are open. However...as I've substitute taught (all grades) there...the only precautions taken that I've seen taken was asking for a school ID...EXCLUDING students...unless they came in after school classes began for the day.
Even strangers could gain access by showing only a school ID.
IndianaHiker
Active Member
Not like that in all states. Here in Indiana there is no class or proficiency test. Fill out the forms get fingerprinted, pay the fees. All that is done is a background check to see if you are a felon. You can get your CCW in as little as a week or so. Faster to get a CCW than to purchase the firearm since there is a 10 day waiting period for that.
IndianaHiker
Active Member
May get your wish a school district in Texas is going to allow staff members to carry. I am still not sold on this idea as think that they are inviting problems. I see situation where students get their hands on firearms that are not carried properly. I envision a situation where a teacher get tired or uncomfortable with their means of concealed carry. They then place the firearm in a desk drawer and fail to secure it. It will happen hell as a soldier I was never deployed but when in the field training seen people misplace their M-16s.
wvbreamfisherman
Active Member
Highly trained professional at work here: DEA Agent Shoots Himself in the Foot - YouTube
I'd rather trust Joe Blow who at least remembers the basics of firearms safety.
The absolutely WORST firearms handling I ever saw was two ATF agents. These same two geniuses eventually had their federal car stolen. It was loaded with two Full-auto M-16's and ammo, plus a nice assortment of flash-bangs and tear gas.
The car was found, torched. AFIK, none of the munitions were ever recovered.
Neither of the two agents was punished.
I'd rather trust Joe Blow who at least remembers the basics of firearms safety.
The absolutely WORST firearms handling I ever saw was two ATF agents. These same two geniuses eventually had their federal car stolen. It was loaded with two Full-auto M-16's and ammo, plus a nice assortment of flash-bangs and tear gas.
The car was found, torched. AFIK, none of the munitions were ever recovered.
Neither of the two agents was punished.
IndianaHiker
Active Member
True on the training however wonder how most teachers would feel about this. We already have a problem with good teachers leaving the education system. They are getting paid less and less each year and being asked to do more and more and many are leaving because of it.