Unqualified individuals on trips

[Roy]

My church group is organizing a backpacking trip and some of the ladies have announced that they want to come. I cannot see how these ladies could possibly be able to safely complete the trip and I can tell you that I'm not going to be carrying any extra packs. The outdoors is for everyone and I'm glad that they want to get out there and enjoy it but I don't think that a 250 pound 50 year old woman ought to be backpacking without prior conditioning. I'm thinking of actually organizing a "qualification hike" in order to weed out those who would not be able to make the actual trip.

 

[hydethebeef]

Perhaps you can require all participants to take a form to their doctor that states they are in good enough health to complete that kind of trip? I dunno, I agree with you that there may be some safety issues.

 

[Grandpa]

There may be issues but how severe is the trip? Is it just an overnighter? How many miles? Is there a time factor to arrive? What about a pre hike training class so people know what they are really in for and what they need to bring?

I've been suckered into a trip like this but it wasn't the "slightly fluffy" 50 year old women who bonked. They did fine, much better than some of the younger guys who thought they were in good shape and knew everything they needed to know.

 

[ppine]

You can't really regulate, qualify or otherwise eliminate people from going on an outdoors trip. They will resent the process. What you can do is make sure that the difficulty of the trip is lined up with the physical (and mental) abilities of the group. Make the itinerary really easy with lots of time for rest breaks and goofing around.

Fifty is not old. I have been around some overweight horse women that were very capable. They might surprise you.

Some will probably wash out in the first 2 miles. I used to run lots of volunteer tree planting projects and the like with the public. Most people that work desk jobs are leaning on their shovels after 2-3 hours no matter what their age.

 

[oldsarge]

Do they know what their getting into? Let them go! They'll only make this mistake once. Maybe the group can tailor the event to meet the needs of the week ones just in case. Next time go for broke and do the whole shebang.

 

[Pathfinder1]

Hi...


Some interesting viewpoints here.

First, I would have each "hiker" sign a paper stating that the sponser(s) of the hike would have no liability in the event of a mishap.

Then I would invite all attendees...once they were briefed on what gear to take with them...to hitch up their gear and go on a trial (not TRAIL) hike of short duration, but of some difficulty...perhaps a couple of miles.

Stragglers would have standby rides to take them back home (or wherever) if/when they fell out.

That should tell you who would most likely be able to complete something longer, in my uHO.

 

[Lamebeaver]

This is a church group, you do not "get people to sign papers" and stuff like that.

A "practice hike" would be a good idea, but I wouldn't call it a "qualifying hike".

You might also want to volunteer to take a look at people packs to make sure they have everything they need, and that the pack is packed correctly....this gives you an opportunity to weed out the cast iron skillets, etc. the invariably end up getting packed by novices.

 

[Newanderthal]

Lamebeaver has the right idea. Have a practice hike where all the members carry their own packs for a few miles on a nearby trail so they can see what they're getting themselves into. Those that can't do it will drop out once they realize they can't hack it.

And as he mentioned, it gives an opportunity to lighten the loads.

 

[ponderosa]

I've led some church group backpacking trips, for teenage girls and their adult leaders who were also women. Sometimes there are girls or leaders with significant weight or fitness problems. I had to accept that these trips were not for me, but for the folks that wanted to come along, and plan accordingly with easier trails. I tried hard to make sure everyone knew what to expect, provided gear lists and rental options, ideas for food, held "practice" hikes for those who were interested, and had everyone bring packs to my house a couple days before the trip to check for fit and ridiculous/heavy extras. I make sure that I have enough adult leadership who I'm certain will be able to finish the trip, and an "extra" or two in case someone needs help to turn around and head back a half mile from the trailhead. I've never actually had that happen. I've been really surprised by the tenacity of some of the women who take these trips with me, who I thought were too out of shape and overweight to have hiked a mile. Most people don't want to be the one to hold everyone else up, and they don't want to fail in front of others. Most people also know their own limitations. In my experience, folks that really can't do it, don't sign up. No doubt there are exceptions, but I've never had a trip ruined by someone who just shouldn't have been there.
Sometimes there are people on the trips who decide they really love backpacking and would love to take on longer or more difficult trails, and we then plan future trips for them.

 

[pastywhite]

Since this is a church function you will need to change your thinking a bit. Your goal is not backpacking. You are helping people feel closer to God while at the same time helping them feel good about doing something most people consider difficult. People who have never backpacked have a different interpretation of the word "mile" than we do. If you can find an awe-inspiring place (view, waterfall, wildflower filled meadow, etc) and keep it low mileage and a reasonable incline the folks with have a good time.

Sex is irrelevant. Women can backpack just as well as men.

 

[Roy]

It's a 50 miler. Those of us who are organizing it are organizing it as a 50 miler. There are other activities and hikes that people who can't handle a 50 miler can go on.

Pastywhite, you are suggesting that we should change the hike to accommodate them? There are other things they can do. There are camping opportunities and day hikes. So you're saying we should change the 50 miler so that everyone can go? Basically that would mean eliminating the hike so nobody can do it simply because there are some in the group who don't have the ability. If that's the case then we should all just do nothing because there is one guy in my church at home on a ventilator and he can't leave home. As for my reference to women on the hike. There are plenty of women who are signed up who are competent hikers. I am referring to the 50something housewives who signed up and have no experience. We didn't have any inexperienced men sign up or I would have called them out too.

I think going to require the practice hike. 8 miles full pack.

 

[ppine]

Ponderosa,

I like your story. It re-enforces my experience with the mental tenancity of women.

It is always an uphill battle saving people from themselves.

 

[pastywhite]

Pastywhite, you are suggesting that we should change the hike to accommodate them?

Yes. It's not a meetup group, it's a church group. Church trips should be inclusive. If you want to do a 50 miler and tell the housewives they can't go - have at it but don't do it as part of the church. Telling someone they are too fat/old/lazy/outofshape/whatever to go on a outing with the church will just cause hurt. I understand your point of view (really) but the people you tell "no" will not see anything but personal affront and that is not something you want on a church outing.

 

[Grandpa]

Roy, knowing it is a 50 miler, I can see the reason for your concern. I also agree with Pasty, you can't pick and choose here. But if the church is holding short hikes as well, suggest or even mandate a short overnighter before the long hike. Also, along your 50 mile route, are there points along the way where a person who decides to abort can be picked up?

 

[WildRover]

I think that some people don't realize how challenging a 50 mile hike can be. It's not the same as walking 50 miles on ta road. If you require the practice hike then you should be good. Anyone who can't handle the practice hike has no business on the 50 miler this year and perhaps they can train for it for a future year. I disagree that you should not cancel the 50 mile hike just because some people are not fit enough to do it. Now if this was the only activity your church did I'd suggest something more inclusive, but since there are many options from camping to day hikes, it sounds like your group is already accommodating everyone.

 

[dinosaur]

I have to agree with pastywhite since it's a church group. The only question I have to ask is how many days are you talking for that fifty miles? Is it tortoise or hare?

 

[Lorax]

This is a church group, you do not "get people to sign papers" and stuff like that.

A "practice hike" would be a good idea, but I wouldn't call it a "qualifying hike".

You might also want to volunteer to take a look at people packs to make sure they have everything they need, and that the pack is packed correctly....this gives you an opportunity to weed out the cast iron skillets, etc. the invariably end up getting packed by novices.

I like this approach. It is better to mentor people than to watch them fail, which in turn, ruins your experience.
Perhaps a series of dayhikes and informal knowledge sessions explaining the basics and letting people get familiar with gear is the way to go.
Only then do you take a more traditional backpacking trip.

 

[Geezer]

The practice hike sounds like a great idea. A "fluffy" 50 year old woman can make a 50 miler if she is in decent condition and carrying a light pack so don't automatically discount them. If you do the practice hike then people will know what they're in for and can decide to go or not.

 

[Newanderthal]

Imagine the disappointment of the whole group if the trip gets cancelled because a few out-of-shape people don't want to be left out. Let them do their own thing. They can hike part of the trail, and then go back when they realize they can't do the whole thing. The rest of the people can have fun.

I've cancelled a trip because of a minority before, and the majority was angry. I'll never do it again. Not everyone gets to do everything and trying to be politically correct just means that everyone misses out.

Have a practice hike. THen do your real hike. If they can't make it, they can go back to their TV dinners and card games, which is what they enjoy doing anyway. If they actually enjoyed the outdoors, they'd be backpacking.

 

[oldsarge]

[QUOTEHave a practice hike. THen do your real hike. If they can't make it, they can go back to their TV dinners and card games, which is what they enjoy doing anyway. If they actually enjoyed the outdoors, they'd be backpacking.[/QUOTE]

There you go! Take them out and smoke'm like a bunch of cheap cigars, if they can hang, they're part of the group. If not, they stay behind and make smores for all those who get back.