An Often Ignored But Potentially Deadly Camping Hazard

[stm1957]

Just a few days ago up near Ouray, Colorado, two underground miners died, and over a dozen were severely "injured", when they went into the area of a previous explosion to investigate and do clean up. They weren't killed by a collapse, a subsequent explosion, a machinery malfunction, or a fall... They were victims of carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning.

I know from experience that mining is a very dangerous job. My first adult job after I turned 18 was as an underground "student miner" in the Homestake Gold mine in Lead, S.D.... I lasted all of 10 months and during that time I was a laborer, a "stope miner", a motorman, and a powder man. There are many ways to die 4,850 feet underground.... But I never thought too much about carbon monoxide, even though we had a 2.5 hour training class on the use of our "self-rescue respirator" that we were all required to wear in our belts along with our head-lamp battery. There were just too many other things that were obviously deadly. (Four of my graduating class would eventually die in that mine before it closed in 2002.)

Often though, the seemingly least dangerous things are the real killers... Even while camping:
Four years ago just a couple dozen miles west of here, in eastern Utah, two campers suffered the same fate while camped out during a "paintball" gathering. This tragedy prompted me to write the following article to which (with permission) I offer this link:

Using Any Type of Space Heater Inside a Tent Can Be a Risky Proposition

Since this forum is a well known information resource for many of those interested in camping, it is my hope that this will reach as many people as possible.

If my thoughts and suggestions on this matter prevent just one of these very unfortunate accidents from happening, then my time has been well spent.

 

[Pathfinder1]

Using Any Type of Space Heater Inside a Tent Can Be a Risky Proposition

Since this forum is a well known information resource for many of those interested in camping, it is my hope that it will reach as many people as possible.

If my thoughts and suggestions on this matter prevent just one of these very unfortunate accidents from happening, then my time has been well spent. [/QUOTE]



Hi...


A good post. And, under similar conditions another hazard may occur...oxygen depletion. So, as the post says...vent VERY carefully...!!

 

[wvbreamfisherman]

I second that! CO poisoning is insidious. Admiral Byrd nearly died from it on his second Antarctic expedition.

From the Wikipedia article.: On his second expedition, in 1934, Byrd spent five winter months alone operating a meteorological station, Advance Base, from which he narrowly escaped with his life after suffering carbon monoxide poisoning from a poorly ventilated stove. Unusual radio transmissions from Byrd finally began to alarm the men at the base camp, who then attempted to go to Advance Base. The first two trips were failures due to darkness, snow, and mechanical troubles. Finally, Thomas Poulter, E.J. Demas, and Amory Waite arrived at Advanced Base, where they found Byrd in poor physical health. The men remained at Advanced Base until 12 October when an airplane from the base camp picked up Dr. Poulter and Byrd. The rest of the men returned to base camp with the tractor. This expedition is described by Byrd in his autobiography Alone. It is also commemorated in a U.S. postage stamp issued at the time, and a considerable amount of mail using it was sent from Byrd's base at Little America, which was powered by a Jacobs Wind 2.5 kW. Later a souvenir sheet was also issued.[26]

Richard E. Byrd - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People die from it every year due to poorly ventilated heating apparatus. Don't be one of them.

 

[carmen]

Good read! I never understand why people put so much faith in the smoke detectors but nothing into carbon monoxide detectors. We have had both since they came out on the market. Mining is another story, many of my friends have family that passed and were miners. My family dealt with steel so hearing some of the stories was quite heartbreaking to realize how these people put their lives on the line just for a little hunk of our planet.

 

[RingTwist]

Carbon monoxide is a pretty common hazard, so our smoke detectors have a CO detector as well. It amazes me that people will do things like use a grill inside an enclosed garage.

 

[briansnat]

I remember a college era camping trip with my fraternity. It was a very cold November weekend with temps dipping into the low teens. A friend who had an 8 person tent decided it would be a good idea to run his Coleman two burner stove all night. Several people advised against it because of the CO and also the danger of an open flame in a tent. Friend was adamant he'd be fine because he was going to leave the windows open a bit and blocked off the stove with some milk crates so nobody would roll into it. He had enough people who wanted warmth enough to risk the danger that the tent was full.

The next morning I peeked in hoping for the best. They were very slow to wake up, extremely groggy when they did and almost every one complained of headaches. I'm convinced that a tragedy was narrowly averted

 

[Grandpa]

Another Father and Son that should have been monitoring Outdoor basecamp forums. So sad,

Utah father and son die from CO poisoning at Flaming Gorge | The Salt Lake Tribune

 

[stm1957]

Another Father and Son that should have been monitoring Outdoor basecamp forums. So sad,

Utah father and son die from CO poisoning at Flaming Gorge | The Salt Lake Tribune

DAMN! I wrote my article to try to prevent this very type of accident... I agree Grandpa... So, so sad. My deepest condolences to their family and friends.


CARBON MONOXIDE DETECTOR in use in our tent:

 

[ponderosa]

I was surprised to read recently about carbon monoxide deaths in boating. Evidently it can build up behind the boats to the extent that it can be dangerous to ride on the swim deck or back of the boat, even out in the open air. And it seems to happen more often than we realize:
CO poisoning linked to Lake Powell deaths | Deseret News

And there was this at a lake we frequent last summer:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865582450/Man-dies-of-carbon-monoxide-poisoning-while-boating-at-Bear-Lake.html?pg=all

We have often towed our kids behind the boat on a tube with a short rope, with me sitting on the swim deck ready to jump in. These articles made us rethink that.

 

[Grandpa]

Wow, guess where I sat all day last summer helping the kids in and out of the boat and being the spotter? And at Bear Lake as well. We all can learn from these posts. I definately have to show this to my granddaughter and her husband.

 

[Newanderthal]

there are heaters designed for use indoors, many of which have a CO and O2 monitors built in.

Those big propane heaters aren't meant to be used indoors anyway. They're meant for use on a porch or a lean-to.

 

[Pathfinder1]

Hi...


Rather than repeating the phrase "You can't fix stupid"...perhaps that phrase should be re-worded...'You can't fix ignorance'...!!

Hopefully, stories like these will be heard/read by more and more people...and maybe save some lives.

Now, if boaters only wore their life jackets too......!! :tinysmile_angry_t:

 

[stm1957]

The article, that Grandpa provided a link to, is about a very recent tragedy that was surely devastating to the families and friends of those involved. I really think that it is neither respectful nor compassionate to use words like "stupid" or "ignorance" in regards to something like this. And since the definition of ignorance is:
"1. Lack of knowledge or information...
(synonyms: incomprehension of, unawareness of, unconsciousness of, unfamiliarity with, inexperience with, lack of knowledge about, lack of information about)"... I believe that you "can fix ignorance" with knowledge and information. That’s why I wrote my article.

I have done a lot of research and even some experimentation in regards to propane space heaters, especially those commonly used in camping situations, because we use them on nearly every camping trip. We rarely camp below 9000 ft. and even in mid July it can easily drop below freezing, at that altitude, after it gets dark. The picture below is our standard line up:





Now both of our Little Buddy Heaters are rated for safe usage in a tent or ice house and are equipped with a low oxygen shut off system. The manufacturer states that these heaters may not function properly at altitudes above 7000 feet... And "when used without adequate combustion and ventilation air, they may produce excessive amounts of Carbon Monoxide". The reason this happens, is because all of these "vent-less heaters" by this manufacturer (or any others that I am aware of ) can only minimize their Carbon Monoxide emissions in an environment with adequate oxygen. The higher you go in elevation above 7000 ft. (or above 4500 ft. for the higher output vent-less heaters) the more Carbon Monoxide is produced by these heaters. Eventually, if you get high enough in elevation, they will cease to function at all… But we have used ours (for up to an hour and a half at a time) at elevations a little over 11,000 ft. and they stayed lit and put out more than adequate heat.

The way that these vent-less heaters work is that they have a very carefully designed and adjusted gas regulator/ mixer, that in ideal conditions, makes the combustion of propane efficient enough to minimize Carbon Monoxide production.( I said minimize, not prevent.) When the oxygen supply gets low enough, combustion becomes less and less efficient until it becomes impossible and the flame goes out… And when the flame goes out the gas supply thermo coupler closes. These are all mechanical actions … as opposed to electrical actions. These low oxygen shut offs are not really a monitor nor a sensor, but more of an "governor" that limits the operational threshold, depending on the amount of available oxygen.

I don't know of a single one of these vent-less heaters that is equipped with a Carbon Monoxide sensor / shutoff. This is because all Carbon Monoxide detectors are triggered by a subtle chemical reaction, and that reaction needs to be detected and transmitted electrically to an alarm or a switch of some sort , that then causes something to happen. This particular chemical reaction cannot cause any physical action by itself. So in order for one of these heaters to have this type of feature they would need to have an "off board" Carbon Monoxide monitor that would be connected by a wire (or wirelessly) to a "relay" which would then connect to a solenoid valve that would shut off the gas supply. As far as I know, none of these vent-less heaters have this feature.

You might ask, "Well, if the low oxygen shut-off system will turn off the heater, isn't the problem solved?" The simple answer is "no". Although these vent-less heaters will definitely shut off at let's say 13,000 feet, or when the oxygen in the heated space drops below an equivalent level, there will still theoretically be more than adequate oxygen for us to easily breathe... (Mountaineers typically only use oxygen above 25,000 feet, and some have been to the top of Mt. Everest and back without supplemental oxygen.) But, what a less than ideal amount of oxygen does do to these types of heaters, is to significantly increase the amount of Carbon Monoxide that they produce... This then mixes with the space's air and can reach dangerous, and possibly even fatal levels before the heater ever shuts off.

Excessive Carbon Monoxide causes adverse effects in animals and humans by combining with hemoglobin to form carboxyhemoglobin (HbCO) effectively reducing the oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood… This in turn prevents the hemoglobin from releasing adequate oxygen into the tissues, leading to hypoxia and even death. So even with more than a very adequate amount of oxygen left in the air, the inhalation of a significant concentration of Carbon Monoxide can be, and often is fatal.

I'm not going to go so far as to say, "Stop using your space heaters when camping"… We will continue to use ours… But what I will say is:

When using a space heater in your tent or other temporary enclosure, five important guidelines should be followed:

1. Carefully position the device away from combustible materials.
2. Provide adequate fresh air for combustion and ventilation.
3. Prudently limit the amount of time the device is allowed to operate.
4. Do not allow yourself to fall asleep while the device is on.

And most importantly:

5. Set up a battery powered carbon monoxide detector in an area of the tent (or enclosure) where it can monitor the main volume of breathable air.

These five guidelines will save lives!

 

[frank6160]

just hit the local store and buy any basic carbon monoxide dectector? any suggestions to brand or how much to spend? where to purchase?

 

[stm1957]

Ours is a "Kidde" model: KN-COB-B CO detector (not smoke) from that major home improvement store that says' "We can help". Its cool because it has a fold out leg so it can stand up. Its not a current model but it can be found new online.

If I were going to get a new one for camping today, I'd definately look at a "First Alert" Battery Powered Travel Carbon Monoxide Alarm
Model # CO250T... It is designed for table top use and it comes with its own travel case.

Another is "First Alert®" Battery Operated Carbon Monoxide Detector (CO400) which is also designed for table top use.

Actually any of the battery operated ones will work, but the ones above are more compatible to portable uses.

 

[Grandpa]

Not only camping, but homes are subject to CO as well. We just had a terrible accident in nearby Pocatello this weekend. A father, mother, and two teenage boys were found dead from CO poisoning. A faulty water heater vent was blamed. This was a prominant family, active in church and civic. He was an established dentist and they lived in a modern home. Needless to say, the stores have had a run on CO detectors and now have waiting lists.